254 | "I'm Stuck": What to Do When the Writing Just Isn't Working

In this episode, Meg and Lorien get real about where they’re at in their writing process — the doubts, the stalls, and the honest truth of feeling stuck. We answer listener questions about momentum, mindset, and the tough question of when it’s time to move on from a project that just isn’t working. Whether you're in a rut or wrestling with a story that won’t cooperate, this one’s for you.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Meg: Hey everyone. Welcome back to The Screenwriting Life. I'm Meg LeFauve.

Lorien: And I'm Lorien McKenna. And today we're digging into a frustrating and often unacknowledged and unspoken part of the process when it just isn't working, won't work, doesn't work again.

Meg: So this is the side of screenwriting people really don't talk about enough, you know, kind of when the magic's gone missing.

The rewrite isn't working at all, no matter how much work you did to get prepared for that rewrite or the feedback seems like it's knocking your story off course. So we're gonna get into all of that. But first we're gonna do Adventures in Screenwriting where we talk about our weeks. Lorien, how was your week?

Lorien: My week was good. I had an amazing pitch and I am waiting to find out now if they're gonna pass or sign on to make the show. And I had a dream last night that I got the call while we were recording this show. So if that happens, I am gonna answer it and we can record in real time how that goes.

Meg: That'd be amazing.

Lorien: Yes.

Meg: Come on, universe. Come on.

Lorien: Yes. And then the other cool thing that happened right before I jumped on a friend of mine texted me that his animation short that he wrote is premiering at Annecy, and why this is so exciting for me and why I'm gonna take all the credit for it.

Sorry, Andrew. It's mine. I hired him for his very first job in Hollywood as a PA on a movie I was producing. And and so I've been, you know, and I knew he was a writer and I've been, you know, supporting him. And he fought really hard to get this opportunity and he made it work and people believe in him, and I think it's really great.

And I just am so proud of him and how hard he worked and how much effort and passion in himself he's been doing while he has a full-time job. He got this short made and it's gonna be at Annecy and I just think that's so fucking cool. And I, I don't know. I just felt like so excited and proud and in all the shit show that's going on right now, I just felt like that is something that makes me feel really good when somebody I care about and I know does the work and is so passionate about it and they get something made

Meg: That's spectacular. I love it.

Lorien: Yes. Yes. So how is your week, Meg?

Meg: My week is this topic. It's how we came to the topic. So I'm gonna dive into the topic because that's my week, which is this script is due and to be fair to us, it's an incredibly complex story with multiple characters, love, story, genre and everything kind of has to come – all these storylines and all of this has to come together in the end and the third act and in your pitch, it works when they buy it. And then the outline, it works. 

And then, you know, we did what people do. We spent a lot of time on that first act and that first half because we were trying to make the train the engine work and like move and then we did, and it's moving. And then we got to the third act. And I wrote it out based on the outline because I'm in collaboration with another writer. And that's the rule. You gotta write what you both agreed to. I thought it worked. I mean, I knew that it was an early draft and all kinds of stuff to do, but I thought basically it worked and my collaborator read it and he was like, yeah, this doesn't work at all.

We have to, this whole third act doesn't work. It doesn't, it's not paying, it's not paying off the promise of the premise. It's not paying off the promise of the genre. It's not doing this, it's not doing that. And, you know, yeah, that feels great, right? So yeah. Fun. Oh my god, it's so fun. Those are pretty small notes, so we oh my God, it doesn't work.

And so much of writing, is it not working again and again. And it's just, I just wanted to talk about the topic in terms of what we're going through, how we're dealing with it. We put it out to you guys on Facebook and you've asked some specific questions, so we're gonna dive into it. In terms of this topic.

So for me, the immediate response, and the truth is, I probably, I knew it wasn't working, but I, in my brain, I was like, but it can work. You know? But it can, and by the way, we might be circling back to that now a week later. Like, oh wait, it can, but the time that this topic came up, it was like, no, it doesn't work.

Right. And you know, it's months of work to get there and realize that all these threads you've laid aren't, it's not hitting in the third act the way that you thought it would or could. So the first thing for me is kind of a primal, corrosive fear just sets in. I don't think this is this way for all writers, but for me, maybe it's because I've been under deadlines so much through Pixar you know, where you're not gonna move your deadline at Pixar.

Like, that's just what it is. So if it doesn't work, you better. Figure it out immediately. So I kind of go into a shock, fear moment which kind of digs down into like my sense of professional, being a professional, e.g. I'm a professional, I just, I outlined this, I've talked about it, I've pitched it. How don't I know that it doesn't work?

Why don't I know that I'm a professional writer? Like, I get into all this professional, you know, and then I go to the professional, like, why did I say I could even do this project? Like, why would I have thought that I could do all of these balls in the air? And what do I know about a heist movie, blah, blah, blah.

Like, like all the professional things start popping up. And then there's identity stuff, right? Like all the fraud syndrome comes up. And it all, for me personally, comes from I don't know the answer. I know this about myself. Now, after all of these years, all of this primal fear is coming from, I don't have an answer and my brain very much works on, once I have an answer, even if it's the wrong answer.

It just calms down. So whatever happened in my childhood, I don't know, but I have to have an answer. And so I start to amp up, right? Like, oh shit. Oh shit. Then what is it? And do you understand that this whole, it means the whole script doesn't work because the third act is the first act. And if the third act doesn't work, then the first act doesn't work and we just, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, of that primal fucking fear starts going and it's constantly running in my head.

It's running in my head during taking a shower. It's running in my head while I'm talking to my kid about his homework. It's running in my head now it's on. But that switch has been flipped until I get an answer and I've got something. It's not turning off. This is my brain. Which speaks to collaboration because my husband's brain doesn't, who's my writing partner, does not work this way.

Right? It really doesn't. And it's just amazing to me that it doesn't work this way. Our way of handling the fact that it doesn't work is so opposite, and it's a whole new level of having to learn collaboration because mine, like I said, is to panic myself and to focus. I panic myself with anxiety.

I amp it up so high that I get this kind of like intensity and I'm gonna figure it out. Again, this might all be also be coming from Pixar because you would get in these rooms of just intense, holy shit. We have to get things into boards. Other shit's already in boards and it doesn't work. We have, you have to figure it out and you gotta –

Lorien: In animation, shit's been recorded.

Meg: You have to figure it out. You have to figure it out.

And it's just such an intense feeling that in a weird way, it's trained my brain to go into some Star Trek, Star Wars thing where I just like focus, right? And everything else goes out, the B and I'm just like, let's just start throwing out bad ideas on the board.

This is what I'm saying to my writing partner. Let's just go, okay, what could it be? It could be this, it could be this, it could be this. because this is how you, only way you could get there that fast at Pixar. You just had to be like, it could be this, it could be this, it could be this, it could be this. He's literally like, because I'm like, it's due.

It's due, right? Because I'm panicking myself into focus and he's literally like totally shutting down. He is literally like, what are you doing? This is shutting me down. This is putting me into shock. because his system cannot work. It does not work under that level of anxiety. And it does. That's not how he's gonna focus.

He is literally saying to me, I think we need to research more. And I'm like, what? Research what? Like what? I just, it's so hard because. You have to be respectful to your collaborator, right? You can't be like, what the fuck are you talking about? Because the truth is he's probably right and it's my own system of amping it.

It doesn't necessarily have to work that way. And I literally had to have a kind of a come to Jesus, come to Meg moment of like Meg, it your way is not the only way he's allowed to go and take a few days and do his process. You are in a collaboration. There's fruit to be born over there just because it's gonna make you bonkers that you're just sitting around for three days, which is not, it's you have to.

So his is to relax and research and wander. Right and meander through things and go back and read some scenes, make some notes, go back again. Where does that note go? All completely legitimate. By the way, it would not work at Pixar because there's, you do not have time to do that, which again, I've just gotta groove in my brain.

So what, so the other thing that I feel inside of this thing is this, I don't know, maybe other art, I'm sure other art does this too, but for writers, it's so specifically writing, you have to contain in your brain at the same time. Both that optimist who believes you will figure it out. It's gonna be okay.

It's good. You can figure it out. And the gut cynic going, it just isn't right. This is not right. Something's off. You know, before he read it, you did know you were just bullshitting yourself that you could, but you know that it doesn't work. Like it's like this very, and you need both sides. You have to have both sides because if you just have this isn't right and you knew it, you're not gonna keep writing and you're just gonna be like, I suck and throw it away.

And, but if you're all optimist, you're not actually doing that kind of deep work that has to be done, which is turn on that laser focus, get real what is not working and get really specific now. So I am just working really hard this week to hold both of those beings and sense of self and process and technique and.

Skill, their skill sets to do both of those things. So what to do. So what we're doing is, of course, I'm letting my writing partner do his thing. He's researching heist movies because maybe we've missed a step, maybe we didn't set something up or we missed that in the third act. This kind of thing has to happen.

He's going deeply into the story. Each scene, like he's taking time to do that. I'm sitting like a kid on a hot potato waiting, but it's totally legit. I think talking it out is really important. And I think yet, I think just yesterday. WI realized that we each had a completely different assumption about the third act in terms of time.

Literally how over how much time is this third act happening? And I think, and the way I wrote it is it the penultimate moment is literally happening in five minutes. And his whole idea of genre, of this genre is it's happening over a longer period. So we just got to have a really specific conversation about are we gonna break that part of the genre?

Are we doing it our own way? How would we do that? Like, I was like, I don't understand. How would we spice it out? Like, I literally don't know. How would we make it longer? Because then he would know. And as soon as he knows it's over, like it was all that kind of like math. And you, I couldn't do that in my head because I was panicking.

So just verbalizing like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Suddenly you realize, oh shit. I have a to and I, you can do that for yourself. You don't have to have a partner. You can sit down with a friend. Lorien and I do this with each other all the time. We're just like, talk it out, spill it out, all your questions, and suddenly you'll see something.

And the other thing I would say is you know, I read a book, I said this on our workshop site, and in the book, it doesn't matter what it was in relation to, she said she was gonna read her mother's journal and the whole book, she's preparing herself to read this journal. And she says, you know, and I have to dare to know.

And I thought, you know, really that is what we're talking about. When it doesn't work again, you have to dare to know what's really going on. And I'm trying to take that into every kind. I get notes. It's not like these notes are coming at me and I have to be defensive. What I have to do is dare to know the notes.

Whether I agree with them or not, I have to dare to know this is a perspective on the work. I have to dare to know that my writing partner doesn't think the third act works. And the other thing that happened this week that I think is relative to this is I was listening to this radio show while I was driving, called here and Now, and they had on a guy who invented a robot named Sophia.

And there's a documentary out right now called My Robot Sophia. His name is Hansen. And they were talking to him about this robot, and they had clips from the documentary where you can hear her talking and stuff. And there's this amazing clip where he's talking to Sophia, who sounds like a robot, by the way.

She doesn't sound like you know an actress. She sounds like a robot. And he says to her, it's so crazy, he says, Sophia, I'm going to have to break you in order to fix you and I need your help. And I was like, that is exactly what we're saying to our story. It is exactly what we're saying to our story.

I am so sorry. You have been with me for months and months. We have been partners. I have built you, I have put my heart into you. You have trusted me. Story Gods to do this and I'm gonna have to break you to fix you. And I need your help. because you don't wanna just break it without the organicness that's already sitting inside of that story.

Do you know what I mean? You don't wanna just start throwing new shit at it like it's organically, it's in there. It, you need the story's help in order to find what the new fix is, but you're gonna have to break it. And I think so much of us, because we love our stories, and he clearly loved Sophia and was literally saying to her, I'm gonna have to break you to fix you.

I need your help. Like it was so I was just like, I almost drove off the road. I was like, oh my God. It's emotionally. Exactly. Yeah. When I feel like I'm experiencing underneath the panic is trying to, you know, deal with this other deeper emotion inside, which is I have to break it like after all this work.

And by the way, and when you actually have it do as a whole other layer of fucking pressure. So, you know, we're going to, and the last thing I wanna say, and then I'll let Lorien you jump in, is I'm also getting to that point of like, okay, it's in the third act. I've said it a million times, we have a listener question about it.

We'll go into a deep of the third act is the first act, which also makes me wanna throw up right now. So, but there is a question for us right now as writers, is this a third act, first act engine of the story problem? Is that why it's not working? Or have we not earned the third act? Have we not seeded it?

Lorien: Is that not the same thing?

Meg: No, because for me, the engine of the story is actually working. All the elements, the theme, the arcs. I see, okay. Their main relationship, like that engine is working, but it's creating tentacles through the second act that we're just dropping and you can't drop them because I see.

Okay. because there's so many balls in the air on this particular project, there's like six characters and a love story and a blah like, but you naturally in an early draft just start dropping balls because you're trying to track something else and you forgot, oh my God, she, her best friend is gonna go with his best friend and they're gonna do this thing.

And the only reason they would ever do it is they've been falling in love and we forgot that and we didn't put that in the second act!

Lorien: That has to tie to the theme, the plot and tie to the theme –

Meg: And actually illuminate the larger love story. Yes. And what the heist is a metaphor, blah, blah blah, blah. Like I think, I hope that's what's happening is we actually just haven't earned what we wanna do in the third act. And so that's gonna be, I hope we'll see what, when my hu my Joe comes back and see what he says.

But I think that's what it's gonna be. That we have to actually, I now, you can't just shove scenes in, of course. Like it does mean changing things because you can't just be like, well we didn't earn this so let's shove a scene here and shove a scene here because whatever. But that to me is a more manageable thing under time pressure to earn it.

And you know, I remember at Pixar sometimes you were like, well okay, it's just not gonna work because we don't have time. So what if it doesn't work? What's the biggest thing to fix that we could earn to show our intention? Because that's all we have time for. Right? And we would just be like, well, the most important thing to the director and to us is this moment.

Have we earned it? Yes. Okay. The rest of it. Okay. Is that how I remember? Is headquarters gonna fall down? Yeah, probably not, but it is for this screening because we don't have time to change it. So to me that's kind of the thinking right now is okay, panic, holy shit. Collaboration issues, allow people to do their thing, get down to the nub of the emotion of what's really going on here, which is I may have to break something, I love to fix it.

And then, okay, talk it out. Maybe we haven't earned it. I don't know. Let you know next week because it's in process. So that's just the kind of stuff I wanted to talk about. Oh, and the other great quote was Billie Jean King said, which, you know, it's funny how when you get in these situations, if you just open your ears, the universe is talking to you all over the place, and I heard.

I don't even know where. Now, during this week Billie Jean King's quote, pressure is a privilege. And I was like, okay, I hear you. The universe, I hear you. I'm lucky to be in this kind of pressure of being a professional writer and having a script due, and I'm a storyteller and I get to do this. And maybe if we can figure it out, it gets to be a movie.

It is a privilege to be under this level of pressure right now in terms of creative, professional pressure, is what she's talking about. Obviously not trauma pressure, that's something different. So I thought that was also lovely. So again, open your mind if you're stuck or it's not working. Again, take the time, open your mind and listen, because I do think the universe is gonna start talking to you in all sorts of different ways.

Lorien: Yeah.

Meg: Anyways, that's my spiel, that's my week, Lorien.

Lorien: I love it. That's a week. That's a week. My experience with when it's not working is I have this very clear image of myself as like a 10-year-old holding like a book and somebody says. That book isn't any good, but I love it. And I would throw the book at them and run away.

Right? Or I read the book 6,000 more times to prove that it is the best book ever. And this is my initial fight or flight reaction with when someone else tells me it's not working or I get, or not even that, just I get big notes because I don't deliver something to somebody unless I love it. Right? And so then I'm like, here's this thing, and then well, here's my notes, you know, whatever they are.

And then I think, fine, take your stupid screenplay. It's terrible, it's broken. I'm the worst writer ever. And I like throw a sheet of paper and run away, right? Like done. Right? Which is my little girl version, responding to judgment, feedback, the shame of not being a, being brilliant and perfect.

Right? The other side of that is. I will deep dive into it and micromanage the fuck out of every period, every line, every bite. And then that distracts me from the bigger what's actually happening, but I'm working on it. Right? I think I will find it in there. I will prove, and it's not proving that it will work.

It's like I think I'm fixing it. And so these are my, like the little girl self. These are like the primal black and white. I'm brilliant. I'm a garbage person, right? So, what I'm trying to do is steady as she goes, which is a lot what you're talking about, which is not falling into the PTSD of, you know, the shit from my past or or just those reactions that are out of my control and figuring out okay, that's fine.

I react that way, but I don't need to react that way right now because I need to remember that this isn't the only thing I'll write. Yeah. And I have made things work before and I will make them work again. But getting into that head space is really hard for me because then what I'll do is just not do it.

Oh, it's not working. That's the worst. Fine. I don't you know what the, and the fear that if I do work on it, it's not gonna work. Right. 

Meg: So for me it's a lot of – that's such a fear. That is statistically probability. Yes. Yes. You'll work on it and it still won't work. Yes. Or a different part is all of a sudden not gonna work. And that's the, like, you got that tire on and the other tire's gonna fall off. That is just the process.

Lorien: It's terrifying. And again, throw into my identity as a professional writer, my identity as a creative, as a person, as like all the things as someone who does the work, right. I'm very always there.

I love when people do the work. Right. And then I'm not doing the work and I'm like, how can I. Right. So it's all these very black and white narratives that come crashing in for me. And so what I'm trying to do is approach everything with a, like, okay, what is my plan today? Right? Like, what is a reasonable goal?

I can actually accomplish something I can do that I know I'm doing. And then I'm gonna look at the big picture. But it, if I just start hammering at something without a plan, without clear intention, I will break it, and continue to rip it apart. It's like, I made this lasagna, but it's got too much cheese in it.

So you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna wash all the noodles, right? And I'm gonna, then I'm gonna cut 'em up and I'm just gonna make spaghetti somehow and I'm gonna cut 'em all up and like, just figure like, it's such a ridiculous thing. Like your lasagna has too much cheese on it. We'll scrape some cheese off or make a new lasagna with less cheese.

That's, instead of trying to turn that into spaghetti, which is what I find I'm doing.

Meg: But the other can happen where you think you're making lasagna and the studio thinks you're making spaghetti, and then you turn in lasagna and they're like, what the fuck is this? Where's the spaghetti? And you're like no.

I told you I was making lasagna. And they're like, we don't want lasagna. We have tons of lasagna. We want spaghetti. And then you're like, I guess I'm making spaghetti, because that's not what they wanted.

Lorien: So it's like, do you put a new pot of water on and get the new pasta? Or do you try to turn the lasagna into spaghetti??

It's like, I love this metaphor. because I'm very hungry right now. But the thing that you said about you know, having a conversation and when you get feedback from somebody, studio producer, writing partner, a friend, a manager, whatever, make sure that. The version they think you've written is the version you think you've written.

Because if you get notes on something that is, they're giving you notes on spaghetti, but you're making lasagna it, it doesn't make sense. Right. So like being able to really like have that conversation as much as possible.

Meg: Well, especially if it's studio execs, because if they think they've bought a certain project and you have not turned in that project Yes.

Or the producer thinks you're not turning in that project. Like that's a big deal. Like you can noodle around just to go with the metaphor as much as you want. It's freaking spaghetti. It's not spaghetti. Yeah. And you have to decide. I have been in a situation where I realized they wanted spaghetti and I was like.

Then I'm not gonna do the second step because I don't wanna make spaghetti. I thought I, you guys wanted to make lasagna. I have no. I have, it's great. I love spaghetti. I don't wanna make it. So, you know, and then we just parted ways and I didn't do the second step. I had the privilege to be able to do that.

And sometimes you can't and you're just gonna have to go research and figure out spaghetti. Yeah. Because, and find your own recipe. So there is it, that is definitely a thing. Like what are you doing? Like, do you, that's why I love on our workshop site, all of Sheila's workshops. because she's coming at you from a producer point of view.

Like what? And her thinking. And you, and as much as we don't wanna create from that, it is going to become part of your process. Yeah. And part of this, it is not working. Is it not working? Because the notes you got are for spaghetti, right? Yeah. Or is it just not working? Because listening to listen shit doesn't work sometimes.

Lorien: Yeah. So my, the, it's not working for me feels like I am the architect of it, because my own internal shit gets in my way from actually focusing on what is it that I actually need to address and what is the plan to address it. So if I can approach it that way, I feel in control and I feel less chaotic.

Less, what did you say? Oppressive, corrosive not corrosive panic. My goal right now is to avoid that, which means I have to exert control over my 10-year-old self.

Meg: Yeah. And I love how that panic, because you can't do that at work. Of course. So you go home and you yell about the washing machine for like two hours because you just, where are you gonna put it? Right. This panic. Yeah.

Lorien: And then the, it not working itself is, I can't be left alone too long to my own devices. Like I have to be very clear with myself like, okay, this isn't working. When do I pull out and, Hey Meg, this isn't working. I need to talk this through or some other something because I will get stuck in that light.

So again, it's like being very self-aware. Then to be confronted with the fact that like the story itself, the mechanics of it, the concept of it, that doesn't work. That is a terrifying reality where happens to me all the time. It happens all the time. And that is, that requires the same level of like, okay, what do I have that I love?

What is missing and how can I take the core of this emotionally or whatever it is that I connected to and make it work? And if I still love that version or not.

Meg: Yeah. Yeah. Especially if you're doing anything for a studio or a buyer because they're buying the poster. Yeah.

Lorien: Oh, you know, of course they want emotional maturity or whatever is what's required for me, which, you know, I, you know, it's fine. Fine.

Meg: Let's get into our questions because I think we'll get into more craft stuff in terms of how do we do this when it doesn't work again, which I think is equally important as the emotional,

Lorien: Okay, here's one for you, Meg. This is from Naomi who says, “How can breaking down act one help identify what's missing?”

Meg: Right. Because I say that all the time. Like I said, if it's a third act, it's the first act. So, for me, and this is just how my brain works. You are building an engine in Act One, and that engine has elements. So what I will do is I will go back and look at those engine elements to say, are they working right?

Emotionally, thematically, what is this about? That changes so much as you're writing and new things come in and no things go out and suddenly you're like. Literally, this is one of the things that my writing partner said, like, but if he takes that action, how is that about what this is about emotionally?

Like suddenly it's becoming about something else all of a sudden in the third act. So suddenly it's just tracking. Okay, let's just go back to basics. What is this about again? Which I know it's terrifying because you've just written a whole script, but you don't have to change anything. You just have to answer the question and or pick a pony for that day.

Like, well, no, we're still going with this as the emotional thematic. It's still the thing that's prising through all these other characters. It just, maybe in that third act, he's not, that action isn't right for him. Okay, got it. Okay. What's the world? The world's on track. But we did realize, oh, the world that we introduce in Act one is not amping into the third act doesn't feel.

Even bigger and more special. It just feels like world wise, we haven't upped it. Right. So, okay. There's, that's partly why we feel the third act isn't working the world. Right. Okay. Let's go to the main character. And her want is her want driving all the way through? Yes it is. Okay, great. Is her need emotionally driving all the way through.

Could use some clarity in terms of that, earning it, but probably there. Then we go to the main relationship, then we go to supporting characters. Right. because in this case, because I have so many isn't normally supporting characters aren't, other than the main relationship isn't part of my engine normally.

But in this case, because I have so many antagonist, Yes. Part of the reason the third act isn't working because this is so interesting. His stakes, the antagonist stakes are not clear. So his stakes of what's gonna happen to him if she succeeds is not pressuring the third act. He's flatlined. Right. And his goal is not.

Specific enough, right? It Joe just keeps going. He's just hanging out. He's just hanging out, right? So, and what's tricky about that is we're spit balling how, for him, he's not hanging out, but then all of a sudden my sonars going off because it's turning, it's torquing, other elements of that engine, right?

Because suddenly his is becoming more important than hers. But no, we can't lose that moment. So that can't be the solution to the stakes, right? So every time I'm trying to fix a piece of the engine, my brain is going back to the other elements. Did that fix just turn off, just set off other wrong things?

Right? And again, this is very intellectual. Sometimes you're writing and it's not as intellectually as I'm explaining it right now. I'm just trying to explain it in a way. So, and we can post these engine elements on the Facebook page and on the, on our, we have a lot of documents about it on our workshop site.

So I just go through all the different elements of the engine and really look at is something off here in this whole thing. And that's how I get to. What, and I promise you it's not generally one thing that's not working. It's probably a combo platter that's not working. Often for emerging writers, it is that want, it is the motivation and stakes to that want are just not clear or driving enough.

You don't have an antagonistic force. You're not creating pressure, you're not creating escalation. So, you know, backstory, they, I know this question or asked in her question, this listener about backstory. Yeah, I do. I would never, even though I did write a movie like this, the whole thing is based on backstory, the whole second act engine.

That's tricky man, because it's not in the movie. So I'd be very careful, but you should go look at that. So the way you do it is you go look at your, this is how I do it by engine elements, and I see how they're moving through and are they landing in the third act and then start to work on what aren't.

Working, but make sure I don't then break something that is working and then you do all that intellectual stuff and then eventually you just turn like, okay, I know that he needs to do something different. I know it needs to be more towards his arc, so it has to be A or B kind of emotionally. But then you just have to be a writer and be like, what's the fucking coolest thing he could do that I don't expect him to do that.

We don't see coming. She doesn't see coming, but it's not too easy for him either. Like what? And then you just have to spitball it and spitball it, you know? because now we're going to almost plot and that plot has to be surprising and all that. So then there's this whole other bucket you have to do.

because it's funny, we were I was talking to my son Aiden about AI and. He's, he was using it for something totally different, not writing. And he was like, you know, it's just so derivative AI right now is so derivative, right? And I was like, yeah, it just reminds me of being at Pixar in a brain trust and John Lasseter saying, I don't want your first answer.

I don't want your second answer. I probably don't even want your third answer. I want your fourth, fifth, and sixth answer. Meaning you are gonna have to go through your first, second, and third answer to your problem. And what that, of course, you're not gonna get to your sixth version or thought without doing your first, second, or third.

That's just how it goes. Yes. As you get more trained, you're jumping quicker, but even then you're gonna come up with dumb ideas. So your first one is, he does this. Oh my God, that's so pedantic. It's not surprising. But could he do it a different way? Could he do the complete opposite? You just start riffing and going, and then here's the trick guys.

You come to this great thing that he can do. And then you're like, is that in his arc? Is that for the main relationship, is that on theme? And sometimes you're like, I don't know, I just have to write it and find out because maybe he's gonna do something different when I write it. So I also let the characters tell me.

So it's just a lot of churn work and a lot of thinking and then a lot of writing to try to, but so the answer is you have to go back to your engine as one way to test it out and then also push what you think the answer is and just keep pushing it to in, in iteration to see what you can get.

Lorien: Sounds great. Let's do that.

Meg: Let's just do that. That's easy. Okay, so the next one question is from Erin. “How do you push past procrastination and life's distractions to reignite your creative spark when writing feels impossible?” So, you know, avoid the pitfalls of housework and your day job. And I do love writing, and this is especially hard when your script is already not working because who the hell wants to go sit in the pain of it not working when you could go fold your laundry?

Totally. I'm finding it more painful to not do it, honestly, because I'm letting my collaborator do it, and that's making me crazy. But

Lorien: I think the first thing is accepting and embracing the fact that you. Are a procrastinator and that you have used it and that's okay. And not living in the like, I think I'm gonna change, or one day I'm gonna become this other magical fantasy version of myself that sits down every day and does this thing.

I think we all have that fantasy version of ourselves. She gets up at 5:00 AM and works out, eats a healthy breakfast, and is totally emotionally available for everything around her, and yet can work and get all her work done. This magical version of yourself that does all the things that is in opposition to who you actually are.

So it is okay to be how you are and that fantasy version is never going to manifest. Most likely we make change incrementally, not massively. So, and then it's looking at what has worked for you in the past. So if deadlines have worked for you, great. What are different versions that have worked for you in the past that you can implement to motivate you to get yourself done right?

I have a writer friend who – money is really important to her. So she sends money to somebody and says, if I don't meet these deadlines, you get to keep that money. And then she meets the deadline, she gets the money back. That's a really clear motivator for her money. Big stakes. So what's at stake for you if you don't get the work done?

Like, will this matter in five years? So for professional writers, it's, if I don't generate a new script, I don't have a new spec. If I don't turn this in take a hit for writers who are emerging again, it's like, what do you really want? And what's at stake for you? And figuring out how to put those stakes somewhere real, that act not make believe things not, oh, if I send this to a friend that's a deadline.

It's like, no, it's real stakes for you personally that has impacted you in the past and put that into play. And it's like noticing what works for you, noticing what doesn't. Because yes, it's much easier to fold laundry. I have a huge stack of laundry upstairs, but I can't do it. It'd be way easier to do that, and I really don't wanna fold my laundry.

Meg: But yeah, you're not alone in that. We all do it. Yeah. I also wanna say suppress procrastination at times is good. You only can know if you're doing it as a habit to avoid, or if it really is, the story is percolating and it needs some space. I mean, Aaron Sorkin's famous for this, he talks about it all the time, how he lays on his couch and watches Sports Center and thinks about his story like, and I remember we were stuck on inside out too, and I had a moment, like I was like, I just have to walk away from this.

And I was procrastinating like crazy to the point that I even took a shower. And in the shower I was like, oh, right. And it just came out like sometimes the procrastination is to a point and you need some space and distance and to let it mulch. 

Lorien: Oh no, and I, procrastination can be a superpower too, because then you have four hours to do it and you get it done.

Meg: You know, again, back to stakes, if you have to go back, I think the way I do it sometimes is well, panic is, like I said, is my biggest way. because I have a due date. But it's also my, your character won't exist if you don't do it like you have to. I think you have to get to a point where you love your character more, then you want to avoid the pain of things not working.

In other words, you're going into battle for your character to figure it out. And she or he only has you, like, you're it, you're the superhero coming to save this story. So at some point, that has to become more important than the pain of it not working. And I also think that sometimes procrastination can be avoidance and the only way to get through it is to really get honest about what you're avoiding.

You know, like I procrastinate on my passion project and I have so many other things to do because I'm so afraid of it never getting made, which makes no sense. I know that because if I don't write it, it'll never get made. But I'm so afraid. Of the heartbreak of it being passed on and it failing that I'm doing this weird procrastination, which I literally just have to now put my feet on the fire and do it.

Because ultimately I think sometimes procrastination, if we're very honest, can also be about, I. We don't think we're valuable enough to give ourselves that time to do it wrong. We don't think we're worthy enough to make mistakes and do it over and over again because the people who are born or have been brought up to believe they have an innate worth, they don't see this stuff not working the same way they see it as, well, it doesn't work, so I gotta make it work.

And it's no reflection, right? But, you know, I wasn't brought up that way, or I just don't have that brain chemistry. So it's very much more painful for me. But that's just be honest about who you are and what you need to feel valuable enough to go back and make it work. And go back one more time.

And by the way, let's all remember when you're in these troughs of it not working, it is painful, but keep remembering. The moment you figure it out is the best. It is the best part of like, oh my god. It's like the sun breaks and you're like, oh my God. No, it's because it's reversed. And if we just reverse it look, your brain, my, my brain was already trying to tell me, I just got it backwards.

And this is so much better than anything. Sometimes all of these versions of it not working are because your brain story capacity as a human being cannot hold the final story. It's not possible. If somebody walked up to me and said, this is the story of Inside Out too. I don't know if I could have done it.

Like it was too big. There were so many layers in there. Right. You just have, that's what I'm trying to convince myself right now. Like I, we are gonna break this thing to fix it multiple times because what's coming? Is so much better that you're gonna create and come to yourself with your own illumination of story.

It's so great when it works, right? And it's so much better than what you could have thought of three drafts ago. So part of it is also for me right now, trying to remember that the muses have something much bigger planned, but they got, I gotta go up to base camp one right now because, but what I have to trust them, it comes down to trust, trusting the story muses.

And if you trust them and all they're waiting for is for you to write, because LA's always gonna be there, man. They're just waiting. They're just tapping their fingers. Like go right and know that you're valuable. And if it doesn't work, that's no reflection on your talent or creativity. It just means you don't have it yet.

That's all it means. Yes, I am talking to myself right now.

Lorien: There are things that I've done where I've tried like, okay, well I have to fold the laundry, so I'm gonna fold the laundry for 10 minutes. I'm gonna write for 10 minutes, which I find really stupid when I start doing. So I'm like, fuck the laundry.

And I just go write, because I just need that first 10 minutes. because then I'm thinking, oh my God, I have to write. Oh my God, I have to write. Oh my God, I have to write. And then I just start writing. And then I give up on the laundry. Like they're like I don't tell me what to do. Even I can't tell me what to do.

So if I create a plan that I'll rebel against, that works for me too. I'm very complex, complicated person.

Meg: That's so funny. Yeah. Figure. You gotta figure out your own lever. Yes.

Lorien: You have to be very self-aware and understand what motivates you, what's at stake, and then try things.

Meg: And literally, while you're pulling the laundry, you're starting to feel guilty.

This is what I want you to do. I want you to put down the shirt and I want you to go right, even though you feel like you're gonna vomit and it's the most painful thing you've ever done. And I just want you to go, I want you to sit down and I want you to open the document. That's okay. Step one. You know, it's not like they said for the woman who swam across from Cuba to Florida, all they her, this was her coaching.

Five more minutes. Five more minutes. I just want you to do five minutes. Just go sit down, open it up and start reading. That's what I'm gonna do with my passion project right now, while my writing partner is working on the other project. I'm gonna open my passion project and I'm just gonna take five minutes and then five more minutes and then five more minutes and just immerse myself back in it.

Lorien: I, so I, one more, I wanna say one more thing about this, the thing with laundry, or you can say, I did the thing, I check it off my list, I feel satisfied and like I have value worth whatever, like you were talking about Meg. So it's setting our goal for yourself for that day of, I'm gonna write for 10 minutes, and then you write for the 10 minutes and you feel like I did the thing.

So you're not saying, I'm gonna write for five hours, you're saying 10 minutes. And then that is a reasonable and accomplishable goal that makes you feel like I did the thing.

Meg: And if you continually don't go down and sit for your five minutes, you have to have a sit down talk with the piece of you that is not allowing it because they're a protector.

They think they're saving your life. You've gotta have a heart to heart. Come to Jesus moment with that part of yourself and say, you gotta step back. I'm just asking you to step back. Right? So it really is, know thyself.

Lorien: This is from Theresa. Okay. “What to do when you fall in love and then out of love with your characters.

When is it time to break up with them and dump their bleep asses or continue on the have and to hold journey till death do us part?

Meg: Such a good question. And so well written that question. Yeah our characters can be stubborn, can't they? I find I get this when I'm trying this happens to me. I fall out.

I think you have to figure out why you fell out of love with them. Like I generally fall out of love with characters when I'm starting to write them towards what somebody else wants and versus what they authentically are or to fit the concept or they're just so big dumb archetype. And that's fine.

Honestly, for the first couple of drafts, I just let them be dug on archetype until they start talking to me and telling me their surprises. But I think you have to ask why you're falling out of love with them. And it could be very legitimately you came up with this when you were a younger writer. It was towards selling something and you just don't feel it, like it wasn't authentic.

And I would then put them aside and say, yeah, I bubble over there for a while. And if they some come back knocking knock, then go have a conversation with them and be like, okay, you want my time? My time is limited. What have you got for me? Character. Like I would literally have, whatcha you gonna do?

What do you want? What you can't do for me, sweetheart? Like, I would literally make them earn their way back in terms of I'm I have fallen out of love with you, so why should I keep going when this relationship and see what they say? But it could be legit that it, they serve their function.

They got you to where you needed to go and to, as a writer and it is time to move and the muses do want you to move on. Or it could be, this happens a lot when I'm working with people. There is some deep lava in there and some protector. Part of you is saying, fall outta love with this person. And they're quelch it because they don't want you to go deeper into the darker side or the more complex side or the human side that doesn't actually make sense.

Human beings don't always make sense by what we do, you know, and again, conversation allowing, it's. To be safe for your character to come and saying that protector, that Viking, I'm gonna put him over here on the side. Right? So to me, all of this is coming back to have a conversation with them.

Lorien: I think it's, is it an ick or a red flag?

For me? It's when my characters are boring. When they're not doing anything, they don't have anything to say or a point of view. And I'm like, oh, why am I, why would I waste my time with you? So then I invite them to either participate or go away.

Meg: And, you know, you know, writing exercises are great, right? And you know, maybe it's because your plot doesn't work, so your character's boring because you're not pushing them hard enough.

You haven't given them a hard enough plot to rise to, is you like it, that poor character could be like hey, like give to do, gimme drive, gimme a great antagonist, and then watch what I can do. So it you might come at it from the other direction, which is the hardest, what's the biggest problem you could give that character and what's the biggest, hardest antagonist you could give that character?

And if they're still just eh, maybe a hero, they're not up for the task and they're a supporting character, or you've. You've divided your main character to people that also look around them and maybe put them back together and see what hap so I think mine was the next, Julie asked, how do you know if a project is really dead or just dormant?

And then how do you let go of an idea without feeling like a failure? Well, the truth is, you will feel like a failure. That's just part of it. It just takes time. And there's certain projects that I failed on that I still have little thorns in my heart over. But what I'm hoping as my manager keeps telling me is, it'll come back in a different way.

You're gonna use all of that in a different way. And you know, there's just, unfortunately, failing is part of art. And the more failure you have, the closer you are actually to your goal. So there's no, you just have to learn to find out how you personally can deal with it. And if it's dead or just dormant.

The only way I think, I don't know, Lorien, what you think is you just let it be dormant and see if it keeps tapping on your head, and if it won't go away. It's probably just dormant and needs something. But if it's something you can easily just kind of forget about and maybe the only reason you're thinking about it is because you heard that some studio wants a la or whatever.

It's probably just you've moved on from it and it's not up and walking around anymore.

Lorien: I agree. I think it's that if it's still knocking on the door, if it's still popping up in your head, yeah, that's a good indicator.

Meg: And you know specifically about, how do you say good? She asked specifically about how do you say goodbye to an idea that you've spent thousands of hours on.

Listen, have a ceremony. Say goodbye to it. Say thank you very much. Talk to them. Tell your characters you love them, but it's time to go and you're gonna take them on to other things like, I know that sounds super California woo, but everything's are pieces of yourselves. Right? And so I think you have to honor all that work you did and know and to move forward.

Lorien: Jan asks, “How do you recognize when notes are off target, but there's still a real story issue and avoid wasting time during a rewrite, essentially. Getting notes, attacking the notes, realizing the notes weren't actually right for the project. Finding out what was really going on and fix that, it felt like a waste of time.”

I don't think that was a waste of time. I think you have to investigate those notes, do their, do the due diligence, especially if they're from a studio or a producer, so that you can say, I heard your note. I tried that and here's what I found that it's actually this and I got to fix this bigger problem in this way so that you're not saying your notes are wrong, I have a solution. Could you have gotten to that solve without going down the path of trying to dig into those producer notes? I don't know. It's never worked out that way for me.

Meg: I mean, the only way to avoid it, in my opinion, is asking a lot of questions up front to really dig down into what the note is.

Again, not challenging, not like, well, why do you think that? It's more like, huh? So you think they shouldn't be friends? So what do you think that'll give us? If they're not friends, then how would we, you then we're gonna lose this scene? Is that something like, just digging and digging, but having said that, it's still gonna happen.

I mean, listen, writing at Pixar, this is just all you do for years of get a note. Like we had a screening. Multiple screenings on it because of a note we got that Riley has to be in physical danger at the end of Inside Out 2, which we spent literally probably a year doing that. And then finally it's like, yeah, no she doesn't.

You're like, okay, well that's a year of my life, right and everything. But that is just the process. There is no way to get around it. You can ask these people who've won multiple Academy Awards, Pete Doctor, Andrew Stanton, they all do it. They all take a note, they try it. They don't know it doesn't work. So sorry.

It's just unfortunately part of the process and you will have learned something important. But yeah, there's no way to do it. It's annoying as hell, but just is what it is. Okay. The next one is from Ann-Marie. When should you tell your inner critic to back off after a draft, multiple drafts or never? How far should you go in telling your inner critic to withhold its judgment?

Basically like, you know, they have a job to do. Your critic, I mean, they're there to help you. It's just to me about timing. Like you said, if you're doing a barf draft or you know, you can say to them, just please take a seat. There is time. You've got your draft out, you've gotten your notes. Now it's time, not the critic.

There's a difference. I guess there's a difference between criticizing and critiquing. You need the critique master to come who's there and understand story and story, math and theme and how things work, and you're gonna start really getting curious. And the intention is about helping. The intention is towards that optimism of making it work versus the critic who, you know, we all have these people in our lives and in our head who's really just there to beat you up and tell you it sucks and it doesn't work.

Some, you know, listen, that can work. It can get you to the problems, but that's a very painful way to do it. So I think you're always asking for the critique part of you to come forward after you have a draft and you've gotten notes. But the critic judgment, I don't know. I don't, that's not for me as helpful.

Lorien: Rebrand it. Maybe you're asking for the craft master to show up. Like there's no place for the craft master at the beginning where you're just laying things down, exploring, and then you need the craft master to come in and like do some checking for you and then step away while you get to do, but I don't, the inner critic, it's such a, negative way. because that for me, that voice is like, you suck, you should quit. 

Meg: Yeah, look at this bad thing you did. Look at that bad thing. Yeah. This doesn't work. That doesn't work.

Lorien: Yeah. So I try to think about it in a different way. What you're actually using that if it is more of a craft check, so then it's less emotional than inner critic because inner critic, even they do serve a good purpose. They may have gotten a bad rap over the years about what they actually do, which seems like the negative voice of judgment, like you said, Meg. So maybe just rebrand for a minute, see if that works, what you're actually looking for. 

Bill says, “What are the different types of stuck and how do you diagnose if it's a craft issue, a character issue, or burnout?”

This is such a good question. That's really hard. I think the craft issue. Is one thing, right? Yeah. I was, when I first read this question, I was thinking about this experience I had on Up. We had one sequence that we worked on for years, never could make it work. More re more reboarding, re-recording, rewriting, editing everything like constant.

And this is why sequences are in animation and, you know, things are being finished. But then there it was a legacy thing from something that everyone was holding onto from the original conceit of the character that no longer existed in the movie. So it was about simplifying and refocusing on the main character and I.

But being aware of that kind of stuff, right? I don't know. Is that a character thing or a craft thing or holding onto something? I don't know, but like really looking at the why you are hammering so hard at something, what it is you're trying to accomplish. Accomplish. I don't think this answers this question, but it was thinking so sorry.

It was something I was thinking about in terms of being stuck because it was such a, sorry, it was a long haul on that sequence. It was like a chunk of the movie and finally cracking it. It was the simplest solution, like the simplest question the directors ask themselves that solve the problem, which was so alarming because we'd spent years on it.

Everyone, the whole, like the, all the story team, the editor, like all of us were like, what is the solution? And it was this simplest solution.

Meg: I think Docter's a genius, but it was hard to get there. I think Pete Docter's a genius at finding that very simple, beautiful solution. Yes. In terms of, I mean, yeah. And you know, the way to get that for yourself is when you don't have a story room and all these people to bounce off of is you have somebody read it and ask you questions and then you suddenly realize, wait, this isn't even in the movie anymore because I'm answering it by based on an old draft and they don't know what I'm, yes.

Like you to get super fresh eyes. They don't know anything about what you're doing. You haven't prepped them, you don't, you know, and they're gonna come in with questions and help you see it in a different way. And in terms of diagnosing what kind of stuck, the only way to do it, I'm sorry to say, is you try it all.

There is no other way you try the craft stuff. Wait a minute, I don't really understand this genre that well. Or I have to go read a lot of scripts written in this genre because I'm not actually in the craft. Up to par, or wait a minute, my character changed from the very first draft, and I have been ignoring that because I don't wanna redo their whole arc.

But guess what? Their third act arc is different than what you started with, or it is burnout and you suddenly realize, okay, I just have to step away from this for a little while. And that is probably the first thing to do is step away and see if it's still knocking on your head and then you come back because you'll have a little more perspective in terms of the other kinds of stuck.

Lorien: Yeah I, the burnout question is on my mind a lot. Because I think I'm always on the verge of burnout as are so many of us in the industry. Because there is the yield of reward is never guaranteed, but you're still working just as hard.

It is about being very self-aware and asking questions that are not. As emotionally loaded with, what does it mean if I take a day off? Right? It means, it doesn't mean I'm a failure, doesn't mean I, you know, can't do the work. Am I running from the work? All these things. But it's one day. What if you take one day off and do you collapse?

Are you able to relax? Does it give you some clarity to jump in the next day? But like one day off can help me decide. And I mean off. Like I'm not doing anything to do with, I'm not watching TV or movies or writing or even thinking I'm like reading or going to the mall with my kid and just goofing around something that it really takes up mental and you know, physical space.

I know reading isn't physical space, but you know, I think you something that totally makes your mind go somewhere else. And then do you feel better or do you feel like you need that more? Just being really honest with yourself that burnout is real. And it can be burnout on your characters, on your project life.

Thinking and talking about being a writer. Like it can be all those things. So, try one day, one day and see how, see, are you coming back excited about your characters or do you just wanna bury them all? You know, you know, sometimes I wanna bury them, like, go take a dirt nap for a while. I'm done with you.

Right? You're not doing what I want. With their lasagna, right, go, I'm gonna bury them with their lasagna. So that's really worked for me because sometimes I just need the permission from myself to be like, I'm gonna take a day off. It feels less frantic, less hectic, less panicked. In the grand scheme of things, me taking a day off means I won't collapse for a week.

And it. It doesn't actually affect my deadlines that much. Like you were talking about at the beginning, Meg, like, Joe wants to go take a couple of days and process and it's like making you, you know, panic and frantic and but it's not gonna kill you.

Meg: No. We're gonna get to my process. Yes. Which is okay.

He's had his time and now we're gonna sit in the room and we're not leaving until we come up with 50 versions, ideas of how to unstick this thing. Yeah. Because it ultimately will be none of those 50, and again, this is just Pixar, right? Where people are just throwing and throwing and throwing and throwing and it's just, I just need a big pile of what ifs.

And then it's so weird to me. It's almost like the characters begin to mulch on that and then this image will arise and I'll be like, what if? Right. So Joe's way of mulching is to go away and research and think and write notes, and mine is to throw ideas. So we're gonna do both, right? And you'll figure out what ways unstick you.

And the truth is, it sometimes there's a lot of different ways. It just depends on where you are in your process.

Thanks for tuning into The Screenwriting Life.

Lorien: And join us on the Facebook group to connect with other writers or The Screenwriting Live membership site for our live workshops. Again, a great place to connect to other writers who are probably going through the same things you are.

And remember, you are not alone and keep writing.